SIRD Malaysia

June monthly Telesatsang with Swami Bhoomananda Tirtha on  8 June 2008.

Topic: QUALITIES OF A GOOD DISCIPLE.

Unni (Testcall): Pranams Ma. Twenty seven of us are gathered today and divided into three groups. We have emailed four questions. Ragini will be putting forward the questions to Swamiji.

Swamiji: Asirvaad. Tell them that I am fond of all of them; give them my blessing and fondness.

Ragini: The first question: Are you a disciple only if you have a physical guru?

Swamiji: The word disciple literally means something like a student.  A student is one when he studies under a teacher. Now there comes a time when the teacher is not there; so he calls himself a student because he studies.  But in reality, a school student is one who goes to school and has a teacher to teach him; one teacher or more teachers. Similarly the word disciple literally means  a person who is under the direct and personal guidance in association of a guru. Then only he becomes a disciple. Later on, suppose the guru happens to drop his body, the student continues to be a disciple and describes himself to be a disciple. But the discipleship itself is bestowed upon by the guru when one goes to the guru, seeks and says “Please instruct me”. When he says that, then alone he becomes a disciple.

So discipleship is born of a relationship with the guru. A person does not become a wife unless she has a husband with whom she has a husband-wife relationship. A person does not become a mother unless there is a relationship with child born of her.  In the same manner, a disciple gets born at his own option in the hands of the guru with his mind and heart. So without a guru there cannot be a disciple at all.

Ragini: The second question: In discussing the bhava towards the guru, words such as ‘honesty’, ‘humility’ and ‘surrender’ came up. Which are the three most important qualities that a disciple should have?

Swamiji:  Honesty should of course be there. But with regards to the attitudes towards the guru, the one important attitude is gurubhakti (devotion to the guru). Generally, bhakti is used in the context of god. Very rarely we use the word devotion in other context. For example, patriotism is the implicit devotion to motherland. Or  “he is a man who has got extreme devotion to his work or duty”. The word ‘devotion’  is used in a religious background: devotion to god. Devotion to god itself consists of a number of qualities. Accepting god as supreme in life. You consider god to be supreme. And you also consider your wholesome relationship with such a supreme god. The same applies to the guru context also.

One must have supreme devotion to the guru. And that devotion is considered to be a wholesome factor not a part-time or a piecemeal factor. Then, trying to listen to and adhere to whatever the guru says in the form of an instruction for your spiritual or devotional path. So that also is part of devotion. One is devotion to the guru, therefore devotion to the words and instructions he gives; and then again devotion in pursuing them in a wholesome manner. So I think in one word ‘devotion’ the whole thing can be covered. Devotion to the guru as a person, as a  guidance; devotion to his words and instructions; and devotion in pursuing them and applying oneself to them with a wholesome attitude.

What is that wholesome attitude? When you have become a disciple and start listening to the guru, you do not need any other aid, any other godly blessing or anything like that. So the best attitude would be not to look to any other source for protection, great blessing to speed up or facilitate your path, your needs. At no point of time should you think that “I need more than my gurubhakti in order to have fulfillment, either material fulfillment or spiritual fulfillment”.

So looking to the guru, make the gurubhakti the supreme and wholesome  element in you.  This supremeness will not come easy. Partly depending on the mind which is very fluctuating and desultory; it is always a distracting mind. So the mind will try to take away your supremeness and wholesomeness. And buddhi is another element which can argue ‘in favour of’ or ‘not in favour of’. “After all he is a guru, like a human being. What is the point of completely accepting him at all, there are other matters, etc, etc”.  There are so many distractions; these distractions have to be removed, both at the mind level and intelligence level. And you should make your devotion to the guru supreme and wholesome.

Now in this process you must be honest, and before the guru you  must be humble. There must be a sense of surrender. The surrender is accepted or must be  included already in the gurubhakti. See, even in the thought of god, people do not rely upon god fully; that is why we have we have too many gods.  Whenever you propose to do anything, you will say “Ganesha! Ganesha! You are the remover of obstacles”. After you have started something and you encounter struggle, then you start going to Mahavishnu or Siva.  Somebody is threatened  to die, so you go to Siva. So we start getting distracted as if there are so many gods and they do not work in unison.

Thinking like that you get distracted. That distraction should be avoided. This distraction is not a factual thing; it is more of an attitude of the mind. Your own mind starts denying itself. So you may regard a mustard as god. That godliness has become mustard.  You treat a mustard not as mustard but as god.

That godliness depends on your godly and divine attitude. After all god is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.  So when you are devoted to such a god where is the question of seeking any other help from any body?

So we have made a number of gods and goddesses. And for different purposes you have got different deities. People are very much after navagraha puja. What are these grahas? They are planets. Recently we have gone to Mars, it is a rocky area.  Such a planet, does it have any kind of a personal element in it?  How can it dictate change or alter the fate of man here?  Do they have eyes to see? Whom to? Do they have a mind to sense? Nevertheless we do navagraha puja. Why should we do?

Is it not sufficient if your mind fosters supreme devotion to the Supreme single god? That Supreme god is all-pervading. There is no place for a second or third or a hundredth god because it is only one god. So the mind is not able to take this supremeness and wholesomeness. That is our problem.

So though we are discussing about devotion, it is really a discussion of the problem and limitations of the mind. So your mind should be treated with the attitude of supremeness and wholesomeness.  Whether the mind can rise to that level thinking that god is supreme and I am devoted to him. In my devotion to the supreme, every  factor will be  looked after. So it is a question of steadiness. It is a question of unwaveringness. It is a question of wholesomeness.

These are qualities which a human mind is capable of cultivating and strengthening. Some people try to do it.  Some people do not do it. They take the easy path and have a number of gods; pick every one of them so that some benefit will be had! This is what happens.

Ragini: The third question: As a disciple, can I have an adviteeya position with my guru?

Swamiji:  Adviteeya position means an exclusive number one position. Yes any disciple, you can have an adviteeya position with the guru provided you depend upon guru bhakti for everything. Now when you start becoming a disciple when the guru is alive, then at no point in time should you start doubting me.  If you doubt your guru, what happens is you will shake your own gurubhakti. He might tell you something and you might feel: “Oh! My guru did not call me but called somebody else. I am not happy about it.”

            Any kind of distrust which you are attributing to the guru, it will be shaking your devotion. For to have an adviteeya position with my guru, it is not easy but everyone should try. And the trial is to purify and stabilize your mind itself. Your guru is not the cause of your distraction. The cause of distraction is yourself, your mind. After  all, you have to think that “My guru will always think of my welfare. Whatever is necessary for the welfare he will do. “ 

Suppose a mother has three children, a good mother will not be partial to anybody. If at all a child is weak, she will be more interested in the weak child than in the strong one. So like a mother is equally concerned, equally moved by all the children, the guru also will be equally concerned with all the disciples. If any guru fails in it, it is a failure on his part and the shisya should not bother about it. Guru himself will rectify it. At the same time the shisya has got  to make any proposition to the guru. He can tell the guru: “My dear Guru, I have a feeling of doubt, indecision when you did not call me and you called somebody else. I felt a little hurt. Will you console my heart?  It is my mistake”.    So you can make any kind of enquiry but everything should be made fondly and civilly; not so much questioning me but enquiringly you can make any question.

Ragini:  The fourth question: What is the difference between a devotee and a disciple?

Swamiji:  A devotee and disciple are different.  Say I come to Malaysia.  All of you organize a lecture and in the lecture hall and in the satsang hall many people will come. They are all devoted to the subject of spirituality and the enrichment it provides. So all of them can come with a lot of humility and devotion. But there is no guru-shisya relationship for them. A guru-shisya relationship starts when they become a disciple. After listening to the talk  they come to me and say “Swamiji, I want to be your disciple. Please instruct me and if an initiation is necessary please give me an iniation. I am prepared to take that. But I have considered you as a guru and accept me as a disciple.”  One should go to the guru and say like this.  And then if the guru accepts him and gives him diksha, makes him a disciple, then there is a guru-shisya relationship and he becomes a disciple.  Until then it is a general presence in an assembly and a general listening  without any particular relationship. Anybody can be a devotee but not all become disciples.

So to become a disciple there must be an additional feeling: “I want to feel the truth. What Swamiji says is right.  I am clear what Swamiji says is true. I want to have closer relationship with Swamiji and I would like Swamiji to guide me and give me the necessary lead and protection”.  So I surrender myself before him. “Let him find out where I lack.  I am prepared to correct myself”. So you give him the authority, the position to be part of your life and to guide your life properly. Then only the discipleship takes off.  In the disciples there are a variety of people, different degrees of discipleship, different degrees of devotion, etc will be there depending upon personal features. To be a devotee is a general position. To be a disciple is a very specific and particular personal position.

            You know I am extremely happy that you are meeting and discussing the subject beforehand and raise pointed questions.  You know this makes the whole assembly and satsang much more focussed, intense and productive. I think anybody attending this kind of a satsang there must be a definite improved life and there must be a marked improvement. This is what I feel. I would like to know whether it takes place or not. So I would you to ask the others to tell me clearly whether this kind of a focused satsang choosing a subject beforehand and jotting down the questions, presenting the questions before me and listening to my answer, does it not intensify the effect of your satsang say to the effect of at least twenty-five times?

Ragini: Yes. They all say “yes” Swamiji.

Swamiji: Very good. What else do you want? Now all of you have an additional burden, an additional goal to prove your worth to go ahead to join in larger numbers to go to different places to activate them, help them. Understand that you have a large quantity of gold and money to be given to people.  And on the other hand you have some help to be given in the area of spiritual wisdom like this. Now the question is: Do you value gold more or this spiritual wisdom and spiritual treasure more? Now you must be able to say the spiritual treasure is far more in every aspect.

            So this is the time for your August Megaevent when we go out to different schools, assemblies and other places and invite people, make them interested, etc. It is a very serious opportunity. You should understand that you are going to do something extremely creative and useful, lasting in its effect for the Malaysian Indians, for the Malaysian Hindu population. This is something that no father or no mother does at home. So you are fulfilling a job which is invaluable. That kind of feeling you must have as a messenger of Brahmavidya. To have people come to the Brahmavidya assembly and then derive benefits which they cannot get anywhere else in the world.

So this is a wonderful opportunity. Make use of it. Be fond of each other. Do not pick up unnecessary differences and quarrels at all. All of you have come to understand each other, not to misunderstand. To love each other, not to create hatred or distrust. Have that kind of a hosting attitude. Let everyone’s  heart host all others around. Do not be a small person; your body is already small, it stops growth at the age of twenty-one. Mind is on the path of expansion. So let the mind host more and more people, more and more devotees, more and more seekers. And try to endear yourselves, make yourselves dear to the others, not an eyesore. Think of everybody as a beloved and become a lover of all.

This is what I have to say.

Ragini: Thank you Swamiji. Our pranams to Poojya Swamiji, Ma and Nutan Swamiji from everyone who is assembled here.

Swamiji: I am very happy. I give you all my blessings and all my fondness. Nutan Swamiji will recite some concluding verses. Asirvaad.

(Nutan Swamiji chants Prabuddham Vimuktam Vikaradihinam…)

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End of Telesatsang.

Discussion sheet drafted by SIRD Management committee. Group discussion moderated by Unnikrishnan. Telesatsang MP3 file recorded by Sotheeswari, transcribed by Swaminathan.

Emailed  to Ashram 11^th June 2008.

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Appendix 1 :

Protocol for preliminary group discussion before the telesatsang

Topic:              QUALITIES OF A GOOD DISCIPLE.

In the article on “Discipleship”  in the May 2008 issue of Vicharasetu,  Poojya Swamiji says (edited for space): We should not have any pride or undue elation  about anything. Even more harmful is the feeling of inferiority. You know, I have got a unique, adviteeya (having no second) position. So far as my spiritual life and its fulfillment is concerned, I feel I have an unassailable position. About the supreme spiritual stage Bhagavadgeeta says: They reach that invincible abode (free of all kinds of torments and assailments). How do I have this invincible position? ….. I think, becoming a disciple and growing after my Gurudev – this alone has made me unassailable. The very fact that I am a disciple of my Guru, the importance, the value and the greatness I attach to my Gurudev – these thoughts gave me the strength. ……….

…………………………………………………………………………………………….

Questions for the GROUP MEMBERS participating in the discussion

(not questions for Swamiji!):

1. Who is a disciple?

2. How should a disciple relate to God and Guru?

    What should be my bhava (attitude) towards the Guru?

3. What are the key obstacles faced by a disciple in his/her spiritual journey?

4. How does a disciple develop constant fondness, remembrance of the Guru?

AFTER the discussion, list three questions your group wishes to put forward to Swamiji.

1.

2.

3.

End.