| Waking, Dream and Deep Sleep States |
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| Saturday, 01 August 2009 23:11 | |||
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SIRD Malaysia
Videosatsang: Sunday 21st June 2009
Topic: Waking, Dream and Deep Sleep States
Moderators: Satish at the Ashram and Unnikrishnan at SIRD Malaysia.
A.V.G. Menon: Swamiji , pranaams from all of us. There are 35 of us assembled here today, Swamiji.
Poojya Swamiji: Asirvaad. Very good. Very good.
A.V.G. Menon: The first question: Is there any truth in premonition and can this be related to the subconscious mind? Can premonition come in the dream state?
Poojya Swamiji: First of all I have to highlight the expression the subconscious mind. If something is done from the deeper or loftier layers of the mind, better than or further than what is generally done by the normal mind, it should be superconscious and not subconscious. But somehow the western psychologists have called it, have coined the word subconscious and it has become very current. I register my greatest opposition and difference of view with regard to this word subconscious mind. I would like to term it as superconscious mind and not subconscious mind. Especially when the superconscious mind is able to give you a guidance, content, perception or infusion far above what is generally found in the mind.
Secondly, premonitions are there no doubt; we cannot rule out. In our cultural epics like Ramayana, Mahabaratha etc there are episodes when there are ominous developments. When Rama is confronted by Vishvamitra suddenly they found some ominous developments. And Vishvamitra Maharshi was interpreting initially something bad and something troublesome but the later visions or signs are indicative of happy and comfortable conclusions; and literally that happened also. So most probably the mind has got capacity to tell you to break the normal rule. You know the thing at great distance you will not be able to see. At the same time we are able to see the stars. So the eyes can see far beyond the obstruction. Our mind also can go and feel, breaking the barriers into the past, present, future, etc. But because of the subjective and empirical processes, nobody will be able to evolve a standard or procedure to perfect this.
So generally this premonition can be very largely proper and sometimes improper also. Suppose a person is given to having a premonition, if you start listening, out of ten instances, two or three may prove to be correct. So you may have all the more faith in him and this man gets addicted to this premonition and non premonitional, will get disregarded and this also will interfere. This is what I have found. Am I clear? (Participants answer “Yes, Swamiji”). If we start listening we will be overpowered by it. And if you listen to him, sometimes he will say things that are an absolute nonsense. Against principles, against convention and against propriety also.
And can premonition come in the dream state? Yes. Dream itself is a complete creation of the mind. In the waking state, you say things are existing independent of the mind. But in the dream, all the time, place, causality, the objects, space, everything, is completely created by the mind. So in the dream, premonitions certainly occur. We were told that before Buddha’s birth there was a kind of a dream, and astrologers were called and they interpreted the dreams and all the interpretations proved itself to be true. So there are instances where dreams can bring out evolution in man, bring out enlightenment in man, and premonition also has something to do. I don’t want you to be guided by this and be linking up with everything. See, a lady, a very senior officer in the government of India, came to me with a dream. This was when I was staying with Balan and family. In the dream, she said, I felt, my teeth have been pulled out. What is this? I said I am not an expert in interpreting dreams. If you feel pleasant about it accept it. If you feel unpleasant about it, dismiss it. Within one week or two, this lady was murdered on the streets of Delhi. It is said that whenever you have dream, especially when teeth are pulled out, that generally indicates impending death.
Whatever comes in dream, you are not responsible for it at all. What ever you feel in the dream, don’t believe it at all. It simply should be dismissed. If you have premonition, why not it happen in actual waking state? Why do you look for premonitions at all? Let us have a formula in life whereby all uncomfortable or unhappy developments will be looked after. So I have got an insurance policy for all of you. The payment of premium is optional. That insurance is completely rely on God, surrender to him, have an attunement. In which manner? The world is created by God. I am a part of the world. So I am also created by God. And everything that I do is with God’s body in God’s world, God’s mind in God’s world. Everything is Godly. Develop this attunement. That will look after all good as well as bad premonition. Is it okay? (Participants answer “Yes”.) This is a wonderful insurance I am giving. If you accept it you must respond by doing what I have said.
A.V.G. Menon: The second question: In the waking state, most of the time we get disconnected from the Self. What is the practical method to continuously maintain this remembrance while we are interacting in this world?
Poojya Swamiji: I would like to rephrase this question. I have got a formula. Whenever you make a reference to the Self, also have a proper definition of the Self. The Self is interpenetrating everything in this world, big or small. It is interpenetrating the atom as well as the mountain and the whole cosmos. So by the definition of the self, you are penetrated by it, you are surrounded by it. If you are penetrated and surrounded by it, how can you be disconnected? Please explain how you can be disconnected. Never use the word Self and then say “I am disconnected”. The Self is by its very nature, immanent as well as transcendent. Immanent means it is manifest in everything. And it is transcendent, it is also beyond whatever is seen and visible. So tell me, can you be disconnected from That? Can you be disconnected from the world? (Participants reply “No”). The world is the Self and the world is an expression of the Self. Can you be disconnected from the Self? (Participants reply “No”). So inwardly you cannot be disconnected, and outwardly also you cannot be divided and disconnected, so where is the question of getting disconnected from the Self? So what is to be treated is the wrong idea or imperfect idea of the Self whenever you feel I am going to be disconnected.
So when you get this idea, overcome this idea and treat it. “I am, I am always connected to the Self. I am penetrated by it, I am surrounded by it. I am surrounded by it, I am penetrated by it”. When you fall, can you be away from the earth? (Participants reply “No”). When you die, are you disconnected from the earth? (Participants reply “No”). When you were in the mother’s womb, were you disconnected from the earth? (Participants reply “No”). Then where is the question of getting disconnected? If you are not disconnected from the earth, how can you get disconnected from the self? My dear children, you are all speaking words, but you have to understand the meaning of words. I am reminded of Kalidasa. When he was writing Raghuvamsha, he was praising Lord Shiva and Parvathi in this manner. (Sanskrit verses). I am prostrating before Parvathi and Parameshwara, who are united to each other like a word and meaning. (Swamiji repeats). Are you hearing me? (Participants reply “Yes”). Parvathi and Lord Shiva are very much united with each other like word and meaning. So I pray to you so that I may get the right meaning from the word. So when you use the word Self, understand that it is something that you can never be separated from. How can you be separated from your father, from your mother, from your wife, from your husband, from your children, from your money, from your home. From everything you can get disconnected from but not from the Self. Will you correct your misunderstanding? (Participants reply “Yes”). When will you start thinking that I will never be disconnected from the Self? When will you start? (Participants reply “Now”). Obviously you want to go to the third question because you want to escape the answer!
A.V.G. Menon: Swamiji shall I read the third question? (Laughter from the participants). If we have realized that all is “I am”, “I am” is eternal. “I am” is complete and blissful. Why do we need to have regard for the world, its mundane activities and even helping others when there are no others anymore?
Poojya Swamiji: How did you generate all this? It is a very, very lofty question. It is not so much the question but the simplicity of speaking. You may put it in the manner of a question, but it is not a question at all. I think it is a very high level of thinking or speaking that gives rise to this kind of an enquiry or question. If we have realized that all this is “I am”, what is your realization? Please read it once again and understand. All this is “I am”. How many of you are there? “I am” is there and “All this” also is there. Am I clear?
So when you realize that all this “I am”, in that very expression you concede that all this is there. But it is “I am”, it is not that “I am alone” is there. “All this is I”, this is what you are going to say. So when you understand that is “I am”, it is actually not restricted to the body, restricted to the mind, but it actually includes, comprehends all this that surrounds me, then that case “I am” you should also deal with everything as if it is your own Self. It is not a negation of identity, it is not a negation of our “We”. It is on the other hand, an involvement of our concern, sympathy, well being, etc with regard to all this. Where is the question of not having “All this”? Not clear? (Participants reply “No. Not clear, Swamiji”).
What is this that you are saying “I am”? Now first of all presented, if we have realized that all this I am, what are the words “all this” referring to? (Participants reply “Everything, Swamiji”). So have you included the existence of everything? (Participants reply “Yes, Swamiji”). And that you understand to be “I am”. That means all the things that are existing, they are united with the Self. That Self will look after your body where you are, like you look after the house where your body is. You similarly look after the whole world which is “I am”. Where is the question of thinking differently? It is an expansion of “I” and “Am” that takes place and not the addition of anything else. Not clear? (Participants reply “Becoming clear, Swamiji”).
All this is “I am”. So first of all you have conceded that so many other things are there. So far I am thinking that all of them are different from me. Now I understand that, as the cell in my body is myself, as the hand in my body is myself, as the mind in me is myself, as the ego in me is myself, all other bodies, the entire earth, the surrounding air, the planets and heavenly bodies, all of them are “I am”. When you start having this kind of an expansion about the “I” and the “Am”, tell me what will be your spontaneous reaction?
In a house there are two children. One more child is born. Then what happens? The mother and father will start feeling I have two children; I have a third child also. So they include the third child and the “myness “ in them develops. In the same manner, the “I am” expands and you start including and comprehending all the other things also in the “I” and you deal with it as if everyone is your own self. This is what happens. Am I clear? Please pass it out among yourselves and go on discussing until the idea is clear. Please thunder like a thousand lions roar that Vedanta is the science of living. Vedanta is the science of interaction. Vedanta is the science of dealing with this world in the most majestic, magnificent, benevolent, delightful and service-oriented manner. Vedanta is not a science of annihilation, it is not a science of extinction, it makes the wrong points in you mind extinct, I agree. The hatred becomes extinct, the intolerance becomes extinct, the initial attitude becomes extinct, but everything else is going to expand. So it expands your mind and heart, it never negates. What is it that you are afraid? So is the point answered now? (Participants answers “Very well Swamiji”). So intensify your service operations. Conduct the Spiritual Meet in a grand manner.
A.V.G. Menon: The fourth question: In several verses of Bhagavad Gita, the importance of ‘sattva guna’ is repeatedly stressed throughout for a ‘sadhaka’. What are the requirements for cultivating this ‘guna’ and sustaining it throughout his interactional and absorptional life?
Poojya Swamiji: See, we have the elementary principles of science, i.e. medical science, etc. It repeatedly stresses that you must have some sufficient oxygenation in the tissue. Your breathing should be very healthy, the air should be as pure as possible, and you should continue to breathe make sure that the air is not foul, it is very pure. As breath becomes a very important indispensable coordinate of the body, sattva guna also is. Sattva guna also is. (Swamiji repeats). Just like you will not close your throat and close your nose, you should not close your breathing. Keep the mind open, keep the intelligence open and develop receptivity to sattva guna. Understand what is this sattva guna. You cannot perceive it. I am surprised when a scientist is bold (saying) “I am a scientist but I have never seen an atom”. He is a scientist, he has not seen an atom. You cannot see the sattva guna but you can only see the expression and resultant effect of sattva guna. Every scientist will agree all of energy is directly perceptible. The effects of energy on matter alone are perceptible or identifiable. Am I clear? (Participants answers “Yes”). In the same manner the effects of sattva guna or the expression of sattva guna can be known and listen to what are they. Light, happiness and wisdom or knowledge. These are the effects of sattva guna. Light there is, happiness and wisdom. Try to be receptive to and be exposed to light, happiness and wisdom. What is memory light? Brilliant. Once you become brilliant, the self in your body should become brilliant. How to make the brain brilliant? Supply sufficient oxygen to the physical elements of your body and try to be as much infused with the spiritual majesty as possible. Are you understanding my words or do you have trouble with my English? I want to use the term spiritual majesty. As much as you can become spiritual, that spiritualization can make the cells in the body brilliant. There will be a luminosity pervading the whole body and it will also start radiating, a luminosity. This is where brahmacharya helps. Brahmacarya means celibacy. All of you are householders, I do not know how you will look at it. Householders can certainly practice brahmacarya because for the others they have already become brahmacarya, they don’t have to practice brahmacarya. A non-married person is a brahmacarin and a sanyasin is also a brahmacarin; so there is no practice required for them. Householders alone will have to practice celibacy. So this celibacy-like practice when it becomes sufficiently involved in chanting or remembering God’s name, then sufficiently given to philosophical introspection, one is for the body, another is for the mind, the third is for the intelligence. So try truthful, truthful, truthful (Swamiji repeats) introspection. Introspection on what is brahman, what is right, what is proper, what is spirituality, what is ethics; all these things can be introspected over. You need not introspect over profit and loss. You need not introspect over what your children do at examination, etc., not worldly things. The moment you introspect, it is actually a projection and an application of your intelligence. When you apply your intelligence and try to understand spiritual propositions, that will bring about a lot of brilliance in your system. The brilliance will be starting from intelligence, percolating into your mind and then permeating into the body, this will happen. I am very sorry that nobody understands this or asks me also. My body is constantly radiating a spiritual luminosity. I am very conscious of it so much so that I am very happy always, no matter what happens in the world or around me. So there is a spiritual luminosity. Do you understand the word luminous and luminosity? (Participants answer “Yes”.) Please explain to those who don’t understand, Unnikrishnan and the others. The spiritual luminosity will be completely filling the body and also it will be radiating. That is why when you look at a saint or a knower of truth, you are able to have some kind of a pleasant effect, sometimes vibration also.
So to practice sattva guna what you should do is all these things. In your food, try to be sattvic, it means what? Avoid garlic, avoid onions. Then avoid extremely hot things, too much sour things. If you are given pickles, am not happy, you can take, I don’t mind, but your idea must be mentally you decide. You know, you are taking hot things in order to stimulate the salivary buds in the mouth. But when a food is cooked and it is very well cooked, by seeing it alone my salivary buds will start secreting. So by what system will I avoid it? Do you understand? (Participants reply “Yes). Unfortunately you believe that food with condiments are necessary in order to generate taste; the lesser you use it the better. Try to be sensitive to lesser usage of spices, then you will find, when a green vegetable is boiled, it should not loose its green colour. My dear women, you are cooking but you are not experts, you must learn the art of cooking. See whenever you cook green vegetable, the vegetable should become greener by cooking, more green, that is the right type. What generally happens is that we people overboil, the overboiling should not be there, your attention must be sufficiently sharp. So condiments should be added the minimum, then only they will give the vegetable taste. It is to enhance the vegetable taste and not subdue that we are adding other elements. So whether it is chili or anything else, try to use ginger, that is very good. Try to use a little pepper. But if it is red chilli, try to use it the minimum. Similarly lemon is very good. Chillis are not good, crushing it, squeezing it, removing the seed, is also very good. So try to be correcting your food. Agreed? (Participants answer “Yes Swamiji”). You take a long time to reply. You are not keen to accept?
Then second point is whenever you talk to your friend, the talk should not be sharp, it should not be in a rude manner, it should not be so. You should always listen to and also speak good things, and God should be sufficiently present in your thoughts. So some elements of devotion, some elements of spirituality, some elements of introspection, then only the talk will be worthy. So you may have to pick and choose or at least select your friends, are you afraid? (Participants reply (”No Swamiji”). So you have to be selective in your friends and you have to be selective in your talk also. Everytime you take the telephone, say “Jaiguru, Jaiguru”. So after some time, the other man will also be influenced by it. So you start always providing importance to God, importance to spirituality, religiosity and then people also will respond to it. So that is one. So as in hearing, in speaking, in taking food and whenever you breathe, always keep the windows open, have fresh air. Early in the morning, try to be exposed to ozone, etc., as much as possible. All this will develop satva guna. And so far as the mind is concerned, let the mind remember; remember (Swamiji repeats), the mind’s role is to remember. So the remembrance must be either of God, or of the Truth or of the Self. So we have three propositions: the religious God, the philosophical Reality and the spiritual Self.
Then the grand nature, as much as we can appreciate grand nature, so much good. Malaysia is extremely blessed so far as natural vegetation is concerned. As you go around, see the forests, look at the trees. From a small seed a huge tree has come, what is the big plan, can any body do this? And so many seeds are there, from where have they all come? The earth appears to be insentient, but over the insentient earth there are so many plants and trees. So many trees, so many plants; can the earth be considered inert? Earth’s denizens are all different. So why don’t we think and get lost in this wonderful and extensive manifestation. This is something that will make you sattvic. And so far as the intelligence is concerned, we should always introspect over the scriptures, scriptural pronouncements, scriptural evaluations and the like. One or two statements from the scriptures I always recite regularly.
(Swamiji recites some Sanskrit verses.) “By doing even well-acclaimed activities in this world, not by wealth, not by having progeny (children), not by accumulating wealth, not by this. On the other hand, by tyaga (renunciation) alone, some people have attained the greatest reward or award in life. “
So this is an evaluation, an exhortation of the scriptures that is so good, very good.
(Swamiji recites some more Sanskrit verses.) “The human mind cannot be satiated by or satisfied by riches. Riches remain outside, nothing cannot penetrate the mind.”
So the mind is enriched by mind’s own product and qualities. So contentment is the wealth of the mind and not money and Malaysian notes. Contentment is the wealth of the mind. Reckoning this fact, with money also you are trying to get contentment. So ask the mind to generate contentment always and the mind will. Any kind of a joy, happiness or delight is emotional in character. Emotion belongs to the mind. So the mind alone generates joy. When you look at your child and get joy, the joy is not through the child. Joy is from the mind. So our mind is the source of joy. Ask the mind to generate joy always for you and the mind will oblige. So these are the ways by which sattva guna can be cultivated. Is it okay? (Participants reply “Yes Swamiji”.)
A.V.G. Menon: The fifth question: Please explain the true meaning of ‘satchitānanda’.
Poojya Swamiji: You are saying true meaning, how many meanings can be there? So is Swamiji suppose to give you a new meaning? You know in Sanskrit satchitānanda is actually a compound word and the word cannot be split at all, Satchitananda. Satchitananda is a combination of three words: sat, chit and ananda. But when you say satchitananda, it becomes a single word. So this word really represents what is the supreme reality, the self or god. Fire, when you say, what is fire? Do you have an explanation for what is fire? Fire is a source that instantly or simultaneously gives out heat and brilliance. So heat and brilliance cannot be separated from fire. Neither heat can be separated from brilliance nor brilliance can be separated from heat. So fire is actually heat and brilliance, the properties of fire. Similarly, the properties of the Self are sat (existence), chit (consciousness), ānanda (blissfulness). Neither of these, nor one of these, can be separated from the other.
So Brahman is ever existing, it is a presence, it is a prevalence, it is an abidance, it is an expression. It can never go out of expression, so it is constantly present. The constant presence is indicated by the term sat. If it was not sat, then it would be āsat, that means it would never have been present at all. So the constant presence, ever abidance, ever prevalence, that is indicated by the word sat. Something may exist, but if it does not reveal itself to you then how are you going to know it is? So it is not enough if Brahman exists, but it also should reveal itself to you. That is self revelation, as is its existence, so is its ever revelation, ever revelation (Swamiji repeats). At every time it is revealing itself to you, at no time it goes out of revelation, that is indicated by the term consciousness. In English I will explain to you what is consciousness. Consciousness is the self-revealing property of a thing. If something is conscious, it has to reveal itself. So the self-revealing property of a thing is called consciousness. So consciousness is that which makes you conscious of. Consciousness is that which makes you conscious of (Swamiji repeats). When I say “I am”, “I am”, how do you say “ am”? Because the “I” makes itself felt, “I know that I exist”. It is not that “I” exists. The existing I, also makes you know concurrently, that it exists. So it is not merely existence, it also makes you conscious of it, so it is called chit. Are you following, are you coming along with me? Is it clear? (Participants answer “Yes Swamiji”). See there is a wall in front and on the other side of the wall there is an elephant. So the elephant exists there, but it does not make itself felt, so far as I am concerned. The elephant exists but it doesn’t make itself felt. Suppose you are blind, there is no sun and moon as you will not see. Sun and moon are there, but it doesn’t make itself felt. The Brahman or Atma or God is such that they not merely exist, but they also make you conscious of it. And the result of this consciousness is very pleasant, very peaceful, very comfortable. So it is called blissfulness. Its varied effect, temptation, but that temptation is unlike other temptation. It is very uncomfortable and sometimes very intolerable. So a consciousness or an awareness need not be pleasant; it can become unpleasant also. So far as Brahman, Self and God are concerned, they are not merely existing, they are also self revealing and the result of the outcome of the revelation is that it is very pleasant, extremely pleasant. All the three properties insure in the truth, they are inseparable. So it is called Satchitananda. Say for example, how do you say “I am”? When you are sick, even then you say “I am sick”. When you are healthy, you say “I am healthy”. When you are poor, you say “I am poor”. But you never say “I was not present”. You never say “I will not be present”. Although the “I” is always “am” , that “I” conforms to all these things, satchitananda. The ananda part apparently you are missing but if you understand the sat, automatically the ananda will also be. Have I explained the meaning of the word now? (Participants reply “Yes Swamiji”). Okay.
See, I have said it earlier also, I would like to compliment you with a thousand mouths for formulating these questions. If these questions are any indication, you are extremely fortunate group, significant group. This I wish to be known to the entire world because periodically you meet there and you are making a discussion of the subject and after discussing you have some beautiful questions formulated and all of them are highly and very relevant to philosophy, spirituality, religion and world. I think this is very, very rare, I don’t know whether you understand it.
A.V.G. Menon: Could we ask Swamiji to give us some general advice?
Poojya Swamiji: I have already said what I should have or I should. That is first of all, I have a great compliment to give you meeting like this. I wish by instead of 35 it becomes 70 by next time. Because the people who are not coming, they should be told what they are missing. You have assembled together, this is one way of generating sattva guna. Your assembly is not for a cocktail, it is not for a chit-chat, it is not a fund-raising campaign. You have assembled here in the SIRD in order to feel in a very holy, austere and ascetic way; that fascination or that fondness or attunement itself is very, very welcome and desirable. If there is anybody to award, then very high marks will have to be given. It is much, much better than going to a temple, in a temple you go and see a mute deity and you come back. There you express whatever you feel like to the deity but you never get a word of response from it. But here you go to express yourself and listen to what others say. So it is a very beautiful spiritual get together. And anybody who takes part in it, who takes interest in it; I think he is extremely sattvik, he extremely sattvic (Swamiji repeats). This is what happens. So I have very great compliments to give to all of you. But my compliments will not become valid unless I exhort you go to the next step. Everytime you should take interest in what is going on. When you get home, don’t get disconnected from SIRD. You should carry message of the whole discussion. And there should be discussions with others, family members, friends, etc. And you should also cogitate over, ruminate over what has been said, it is called manana, introspection, rumination, reflection; this has to be done. Then as a group of 35 people, it is not a small number, even 3.5 people can do a great lot, so what about 35 people coming together? So I think you should feel for society to which you belong, try to do something together; primarily, mentally, heartily and intellectually. I don’t know whether you can do anything economically, I shall keep a point away. Whatever goodness you do in this assembly, you should try to make it available to the others also, that is why I said let us have a spiritual meet, last time it was held. This time it is going to be held in a more detailed manner with a lesser number of people. Even then it is going to be something like 230 people or so. We are going to spend one and a half days. See our idea is to bring all these people we are targeting. There are 13 states in Malaysia, from every state we are going to have something like 10 or 12 people as representation. And all these people unite together and we are able to discuss the subject of Hinduism or Hindu Welfare, both Individual and Family Welfare and also Societal Welfare but everything grounded to spiritual wisdom and its dissemination. It is a great message we have to percolate to the whole country. Every one of you should be very enthusiastic about it. Try to do whatever is possible, give the best and try to make it as effective as possible. Our people have gone to different places and people have said they are prepared to come, even more than what is expected, this is something very good. So again I would say, as an individual belongs to a family, family belongs to the society, and society belongs to nature or mother earth. So it is not enough if you become concerned about the family and family welfare, you should also be concerned about the society and societal welfare. And you must also be conscious of the environmental needs and environmental safeguards. When all these concentric circles are sufficiently shining in your heart and mind, I think the individual becomes the best. Bhagawad Gita says it in the best possible manner – “Sarva bootha hithe ratha” - interested in the welfare of all creatures in the world. That is the dimension in which I would like you to go. Instead of living and moving with a mustard mind, try to live with a mountainous and oceanal or a spatial mind. With a spatial mind you will find the individuals are bold, unimaginably great. The fervour, the enthusiasm, the feeling, the intensity, the inspiration, all these will be greatly known. So let your mind expand to contain, include and comprehend larger and larger dimensions. You live bodily with your family but mentally the whole universe as a universal being. This is my message.
I embrace you all mentally and also bless you so that you can have this higher and broader dimension.
A.V.G. Menon: Swamiji, could we request Ma to conclude with the prayers? Thank you.
Poojya Swamiji: I am giving it (microphone) to Maa.
Maa Guru Priya: Shall I chant the concluding slokas? (Ma chants Prabuddham Vimukhtam …)
Poojya Swamiji: Jaiguru, jaiguru. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Videosatsang, 21 June, 2009. Duration 53 minutes. Skype set-up and recording by Rames and Rema. Satsang coordination by Unnikrishnan and Jeyabalasingam. Hand-out sheet prepared by Management Committee, Society for Inner Resources Development Malaysia. Bhojan & Annakshetra team supervised by Shanti & Sotheeswari. Transcription of audiofile by Swaminathan. Emailed to Ashram 1 August 2009.
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APPENDIX 1: Handout to participants of the discussion before the videosatsang.
SIRD Malaysia Videosatsang: Sunday 21st June 2009 Topic: Waking, Dream and Deep Sleep States
Devotee R writes to Poojya Swamiji on dream: Swamiji, a few days back I had a strange dream and since then I have been trying to interpret the same. It was about a strange vehicle for road transport. It didn’t look like a car or anything else I knew of. It was not powered by any form of fuel. It was based on some mechanical principles. On getting up that morning, I tried very hard to think about what that gadget was all about, and whether I had ever read about any such thing. How is it that I dreamt of something that I had never seen or experienced? What makes such a dream possible? May I humbly request Swamiji to shed some light on this dream.?
Swamiji replies: Either sleep or dream is still not known well. The one who explores sleep should be awake to explore it – how can the sleeping individual be awake and asleep simultaneously? This leaves us to ascertain the facts or truth through safe and well-approved anumaana, based upon the premise of experience.
Sleep in one sense takes us away, disconnects us, from the body, mind, intelligence and even ego. But where it lodges us is the crucial point. In such a state of disconnection, which fully breaks one away from his normal, recurring, wakefulness, dream intrudes. While the dream is on, it is waking itself, except that at one point, we break away from the dream world to come back to our recurring wakeful world.
It leads to the question whether there is anything like dream at all. The answer is: No, because while dreaming it was waking, and when one breaks away from it, it is not there. What is then that self-denying, deluding state? Nevertheless, we call it by the word ‘dream’. Dream, says Sankara, occurs when the intelligence courses through the subtle nerves (suksma-nadis). This is one statement. Dream thus will always remain inexplicable.
But the same Power and Presence – call it Consciousness – which causes sleep as well as waking, causes the dream intrusion too. What are the powers of this indwelling, Consciousness? It can (i) create whatever is not, (ii) un-create whatever is, and (iii) bring about any change in whatever exists.
This one great power, the supreme power, is called Maya. Maya is described as: aghatana-ghatana-patiyasi – expert in manifesting phenomenon that is not there. Keeping, the sleeper quite alive with his head, trunk, etc. in tact, it gives him a dream, in which his head is cut off – svapne-yatha-siraschedah.
Your dream is a similar display. If maya can produce this complex world where time, space and personality co-exist suddenly, if it can bring about the spatial creation, making the whole of the creation stand nowhere and on nothing, can it not also given you a strange dream, a replica of the same jugglery?
Dream sometimes can be suggestive, sometimes not so. The Supreme prefers to keep it so. If the Absolute can create in itself the wakefulness with all its causality as well as its defiance, it can as well create a dream in which even these can be in escalated measure.
Can you not think simply like this, and be restful? The point to be noted is: Consciousness itself reigns nowhere. It is the one that brings phenomena, which are manifesting in space-time. To create all phenomena, the creating source must be non-phenomenal, which is what Brahman is.
Desire, hatred and fear prevail in wakefulness. When quite intense these may cause dreams. In that case, dream is an extension of waking. Sometimes, there are very subtle undercurrents in the mind, which become the cause of some dreams. Whatever remains undone in wakefulness is sometimes sought to be accomplished in dream. Sometimes, very realistic dreams also take place. They are generally creative visions inspiring the dreamer to accomplish a strange, useful task.
Where does the dream imply usefulness and relevance, and where not so, is a delicate judgment. So many fall a victim to delusion by following dreams, and even harm is caused sometimes!
Extract from Vicharasetu, November 2003, pages 18-22; {Correspondence} The Enigmatic Way of Consciousness ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Questions for the GROUP MEMBERS participating in the discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER the discussion, list three questions your group wishes to put forward to Swamiji.
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